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PostSubject: galatians 4   Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:13 pm

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/34/34-3/34-3-pp353-364_JETS.pdf

Nothing comes easy.
Following protocols without understanding wouldn't get one too far.
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PostSubject: Re: galatians 4   Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:37 am

Why am I challenging what I believe?
No I'm not. I'm challenging what is believed.
It's irritating. Why keep digging out what's swept under the carpet?
What more could one ask for when everyone essentially agrees on the principles?

I have said enough of examine what I said. So I'm being examined of what I said.

I get defensive. Who wouldn't? Does one really believe what he believes? Blame it all on Apologetics.

I always have a different answer - or rather - a conceivably different answer. That's not what I said - or rather - that's not what I'm believed to have said. I'm full of contradictions because it seems that's what the scriptures convey.



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PostSubject: Re: galatians 4   Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:28 pm

Okay, I am giving benefit of the doubt on the word "world" in Galatians 4:3. Let's assume this "world" means "Jewish world" or anything other than it's natural meaning of "worldly" so I'm not going to do the exegesis from this angle. Let's try another one:

Just as Galatians 3:19 hints that the law mentioned in the chapter was not about the ten words (commandments) in Exodus 20, Galatians 4:8 states that the Galatians, before they came to know Yahweh, were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.
So here Paul couldn't possibly talk about the law given through Moses but rather something the Galatians believed previously.
So what did they believe previously? One must know who the Galatians were.
If one reads the map and Acts 13-14 it's not difficult to figure out they were the believers in Derbe, Lystra, Iconium and Pisidian Antioch which were cities within the region of Galatia.
So what did they believe previously? Acts 14:11-12 gives a little insight. It had something to do with Zeus and Hermes.
Who are Zeus and Hermes? They are Greek gods who by nature, according to Paul, are not gods.
What do these Greek gods have to do with Galatians 4, to be exact 4:10? One can check them out here and do the math: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881990.html
and
http://www.colonization.biz/old_gods.htm
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertumnus

One could see where we get the contemporary names of weekdays, months, seasons. And years? See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus

The Galatians were compelled to be circumcised in order to join His kingdom. Some said are you kidding me? No, I am going back to my old gods. That's the reason Paul wrote this letter.

Of course it's all B.S. Galatians 4:10 must be about Sabbath, new moon, festival days and such, according to church fathers.
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PostSubject: Re: galatians 4   Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:36 pm

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PostSubject: Re: galatians 4   Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:11 pm

Going back to Galatians 4:3 regarding "the elemental spiritual forces of the world".
Let's assume again it does not mean "the world".

Some interpret "the world" as traditions including Jewish traditions. To prove this, we will have to find such usage of "the world" in the New Testament. I could not find any. Please see if anyone could.

On the other hand, many interpret "the elemental spiritual forces of the world" as Moses ceremonial law. Here's an example from Biblehub:
Verse 3. - Even so we (οὕτω καὶ ἡμεῖς); so we also. This "we" represents the same persons as before in Galatians 3:13, 24, 25 (see notes), namely, the people of God; a society preserving a continuous identity through successive stages of development, till now appearing as the Church of Christ. The plural pronoun recites, not individuals, but the community viewed as a whole, having the now subsisting "us" as its present representatives. Individually, Christians in general now, and many of those who then when the apostle wrote belonged to the Church, never were in the state of nonage or bondage here referred to. It is, however, notwithstanding this, quite supposable that St. Paul's account of the history of the whole society is in some degree tinted by the recollection of his own personal experiences. When we were children (ὅτε ῆμεν νήπιοι); that is, when we were in our nonage. The phrase is not meant to point to a state of immaturity in personal development, but simply to the period of our being withheld from the full possession of our inheritance. This is all that the course of thought now pursued requires; and we only create for ourselves superfluous embarrassment by carrying further the parallel between the figuring persons and the figured. The spiritual illumination enjoyed by the Christian Church, compared with that of the pre-Christian society, presents as great a contrast as that of a man's knowledge compared with a child's; but that is not the point here. Were in bondage under the elements (or, rudiments) of the world (ὑπὸ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου η΅μεν δεδουλωμένοι); were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world; or, were under the rudiments of the world brought into bond-service. This latter way of construing, separating η΅μεν from the participle δεδουλωμένοι to connect it with the words which precede, is recommended by the parallel, which the words, "were under the rudiments of the world," then present to the words," is under guardians and stewards," in ver. 2; while the participle "brought into bond-service" reproduces the notion expressed by the words, "is no better than a bond-servant," of ver. 1. The participle "brought into bond-service," then, stands apart, in the same way as the participle "shut up "does in Galatians 3:23. This, however, is only a question of style; the substantial elements of thought remain the same in either way of construing. The Greek word στοιχεῖα calls for a few remarks, founded upon the illustration of its use given by Schneider in his 'Greek Lexicon.' From the primary sense of "stakes placed in a row," for example, to fasten nets upon, the term was applied to the letters of the alphabet as placed in rows, and thence to the primary constituents of speech; then to the primary constituents of all objects in nature, as, for example, the four "elements" (see 2 Peter 3:10, 12 ); and to the "rudiments" or first "elements" of any branch of knowledge. It is in this last sense that it occurs in Hebrews 5:12, "What are the (στοιχεῖα) rudiments (of the beginning, or) of the first principles of the oracles of God" (on which compare the passage from Galen quoted by Alford at the place). This must be the meaning of the word here; it recites the rudimental instruction of children, as if the apostle had said "under the A, B, C, of the world." This is evidently intended to describe the ceremonial Law; for in ver. 5 the phrase, "those under the Law," recites the same persons as are here described as "under the rudiments of the world;" as again the "weak and beggarly rudiments," in ver. 9, are surely the same sort of" rudiments" as are illustrated in ver. 10 by the words, "Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years." Since the Law under which the people of God were placed was God's own ordinance, we must infer that, when it is here designated as "the A, B, C, of the world," the genitive can neither denote the origin of these rudiments nor yet any qualification of moral pravity, but only the qualification of imperfection and inferiority; that is, it denotes the ceremonial institution s of the Law as appertaining to this earthly material sphere of existence, as contrasted with a higher spiritual sphere. Thus "the A, B, C, of the world" is an expression as nearly as possible identical with that of "carnal ordinances" (literally, ordinances of the flesh), used to describe the external ceremonialism of the Law in Hebrews 9:10; which phrase, like the one before us, is used with a full recognition, in the word "ordinances" (δικαιώματα), of the Law as of Divine appointment, while the genitive "of the flesh" marks its comparative imperfection. They were, as Conybeare paraphrases, "their childhood's elementary lessons of outward things." This designation of Levitical ceremonies as being an "A, B, C," or "rudiments, of the world," appears to have become a set phrase with the apostle, who uses it again twice in the Colossians (Colossians 2:8, 20), where he appears, if we may judge from the context, to have in view a (perhaps mongrel) form of Jewish ceremonialism which, with circumcision (mentioned in ver. 11), conjoined other "ordinances" (δόγματα) mentioned in vers. 14, 20, relating to meats and drinks and observance of times, illustrated in vers. 16, 21. This, he tells the Colossians, might have been all very well if they were still "living in the world" (ver. 20); but now they were risen with Christ! - with Christ, who had taken that "bond" (χειρόγραφον, ver. 14) out of the way; and therefore were called to care for higher things than such merely earthly ones as these. Some suppose that the apostle has reference to the religious ceremonialisms of the idolatrous Gentiles, as well as those of the Mosaic Law. These former ceremonialisms belonged, indeed, to "the world," both in the sense above pointed out and as tinged with the moral pravity characterizing the "present evil world" in general. But these cannot be here intended, forasmuch as it was not to such that God's people were by his ordinance subjected. The other rendering of στοιχεῖα - "elements" - which the Authorized Version puts into the text, but the Revised Version into the margin, was probably selected in deference to the view of most of the Fathers, who, as Meyer observes, took the Greek word in its physical sense: Augustine referring it to the heathen worship of the heavenly bodies and the other cults of nature; Chrysostom, Theodoret, and Ambrose to the new moons and sabbaths of the Jews, viewed as determined by the motions of the sun and moon; Jerome, however, interpreting it rudimenta discipliner. On the other hand, in Colossians 2:8, 20, both of our Versions have "rudiments" in the text and "elements" in the margin; in 2 Peter 3:10, 12, "elements" only. "Brought into bend-service" (δεδουλωμένοι), namely, by the act of the supreme Father imposing upon us the yoke of his Law.
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PostSubject: Re: galatians 4   Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:17 pm

Galatians is confusing. Haven't got there yet.
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