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 Fasting on the day of atonement

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boyscout



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PostSubject: Fasting on the day of atonement   Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:30 pm

If anyone could show from the scripture that God commanded His people to fast on the day of atonement otherwise it is human tradition.
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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:04 pm

boyscout wrote:
If anyone could show from the scripture that God commanded His people to fast on the day of atonement otherwise it is human tradition.

Lev 23:27-31

The word for "soul" in Strong's #5315 also means "appetite" in Hebrew.
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boyscout



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:08 pm

If H5315 can be translated as "Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your appetite, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD" and means fasting, does it apply to everyone without prejudice? And must afflicting one's appetite mean fasting (Daniel ate no choice food came to mind)? Does in include abstaining from water like Yeshua did in the desert?

H5315 was sometimes translated as life and body - and - humility was sometimes shown by beating one's breast, tearing one's clothes, putting on sackcloth and sitting in the ashes. Should God's people do them all on day of atonement just in case?

Might as well ask if a sacred assembly must be held and offering must be presented to the Lord on the day of atonement because they are also part of the lasting ordinance, for generations to come and wherever one lives.
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boyscout



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:49 pm

And if H5315 should be translated as "appetite" in Leviticus 23:27, there's no reason, within the context, why it's not translated the same in Leviticus 23:29. Then it becomes:
For whatsoever appetite it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
And just for fun, Leviticus 23:30 will become:
And whatsoever appetite it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same appetite will I destroy from among his people.
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boyscout



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:50 pm

Fasting is not mandatory but it's beneficial to do so. Some said.
That's a lie. That's legalism manifested.,----it was offensive.

What does fasting do?
Would it lead one to deny himself and to repent?

If it would, then it's good to do more often. How about twice a week? There's a parable in the gospel that one did exactly that. However, it was the other fellow, whom the bible did not record that he fasted, justified before God cf Luke 18:9-14.

If it would, then God would not have to speak in Isaiah 58.

Fasting is NOT the mean to lead one to deny himself.

How to deny oneself?
What does denying oneself do?
Nothing. Nothing when one does not recognize his own sins.
It is the Holy Spirit who convicts and teaches cf John 16:8 and 16:13.
And the Holy Spirit acknowledges that Yeshua the Messiah the Word, who is the way, the truth and the life, has come in the flesh (See another topic for the way, the truth and the life).

Psalm 51 gave a very good example.
Verse 17 was what the Way referred to in Matthew 5:3-5.


Last edited by boyscout on Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boyscout



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:47 am

Yeshua the Messiah said in Matthew 16:24-27
"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."

Instead of fasting, follow Yeshua.<----is offensive but am not crossing it out.
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t



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:47 pm

Brother,

Here are my thoughts.

I agree that following Yeshua comes first. However, I believe keeping the day of atonement would normally include fasting.

Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

afflict is H6031 "anah"
- to afflict, to humble one self, to depress, to chasten, to deal hardly

souls is H5315 "nephesh"
- soul, vitality, creature, body, breath, any(thing), desire, lust, pleasure, appetite

"Afflict your souls" could then mean "humbling your vitality", "humbling your all, your body, your desires", "depressing/denying yourself pleasure". This includes, but is not limited to eating. I take this to mean the opposite of "delighting your souls" which would include lots of eating and drinking.

If you look at Lev 23:
v7 (first day of unleavened bread) - "do no servile work"
v8 (seventh day of unleavened bread) - "do no servile work"
v21 (feast of weeks) - "do no servile work"
v25 (feast of trumpets) - "do no servile work"
v28 (day of atonement) - "do no work" or "you shall not do any work"
v31 (day of atonement) - "do no manner of work"
v35 (first day of tabernacles) - "do no servile work"
v36 (eighth day of tabernacles) - "do no servile work"

servile work (H5656) means labourous work, work of a servant

From Ex 12:16, it is shown that this means "no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you".

Lev 16:31 says "It (day of atonement) shall be a sabbath of rest (sabbath of sabbaths) unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever."

Thus, it seems food preparation is not allowed on the day of atonement.

Moreover, as you are already aware, there are examples in the bible of YHWH's people either fasting to humble themselves or fasting on the day of atonement. (Ps 35:13, 69:10, Acts 27:9) On the other hand, I don't know of any examples in the bible of anyone keeping the day of atonement without fasting.
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boyscout



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:20 pm

I am totally with you on the understanding of the old testament.
However, elsewhere I mentioned that the day of atonement has been fulfilled, at least for those who believe.
Leviticus 16:30 and 23:28 said atonement will be/is made for you and Yeshua did that.
Elsewhere I compared Leviticus 16, which was the old covenant, with Hebrews chapter 9 & 10, which is the new.
Hebrews 8:12-13 said the old is obsolete.
Whatever did the Israelites in this aspect in the old testament was a shadow of the good things to come, and has come.

Am I suggesting that we are to ignore the day of atonement? No, not at all. But fasting for our own sins on that particular day? Shouldn't we afflict our soul whenever we realize we are in sins? Shouldn't we be over that by now per Hebrews 6:1-2?

Are we to fast? It depends. You quoted Acts 27:9. However, the verse did not suggest practicing fasting. The verse did is Acts 13:2-3. They fasted for a more noble cause.

We don't sacrifice a lamb no more on Passover (the temple is not required to practice that) so why single out fasting on the day of atonement?

I don't want to touch on "do no work" because technically no one could observe such flawlessly.



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t



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PostSubject: Re: Fasting on the day of atonement   Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:59 pm

I don't disagree with you that true believers already have their sins atoned for; and in fact, by the holy spirit should be able to live free from the bondage of sin.

Here are my thoughts based on my current understanding:

- Day of atonement in Lev 16 was a day to atone for sins of all Israel. I believe "afflict your souls" is for the sins of the nation as a whole. It is a shadow of things to come. I do not think it has been fulfilled because 1) the scapegoat has not been put out, 2) sin has not been put to an end (meaning there are still sins to atone for).

- I do support the view that day of atonement may be judgment day, hence why I brought up Revelation. In that case, it will probably be a tragic day where people will naturally "afflict themselves" including not wanting to eat. Or it may remind us that we are spared only because of Yeshua and that will make us afflict ourselves. So besides his appointed feasts being called an everlasting statute by YHWH and a sign for true followers, it is to prepare us for what's coming.

- We do not celebrate passover by sacrificing a lamb. However, we do still celebrate passover as instructed by Yeshua in remembrance of his body and his blood. We celebrate unleavened bread. We celebrate tabernacles. I don't think day of atonement is singled out. The command is to "afflict your souls" whether we know the true meaning or not. The Israelites was given a reason to celebrate each feast without knowing that there is a greater meaning to them. There could still be further fulfillment of any one of the feasts, including the spring feasts.

- Regarding fasting, I have presented my reasoning of why I personally think afflicting your souls includes fasting. I'm not forcing others to do this. I'm just presenting my findings which I think I have made clear, including the word study and Lev 23.
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